Community Development
Monday, June 09 2008
UPPER MORELAND TOWNSHIP
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
June 9, 2008
CALL TO ORDER - Commissioner Lavalle called a meeting of the Community
Development Committee of the Board of Commissioners of Upper Moreland Township to order at 7:00 p.m.
A MOMENT OF SILENCE WAS FOLLOWED BY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
PRESENTATIONS/ANNOUNCEMENTS:
There were none.
ROLL CALL:Commissioner Lavalle, Chairman, took roll call.Present:
Commissioners James Hotchkiss and Kevin Spearing.
Others:David A. Dodies, Township Manager; Catherine M. Harper, Township Solicitor; Joe
Hanna, Township Engineer; and Jack Snyder, Director of Public Works.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Commissioner Spearing stated he had one change to the minutes of May 12, 2008.On page 3, second
paragraph from the top of page "water company" should read "Philadelphia Water Company."
Commissioner Lavalle accepted the minutes of the May 12, 2008 Community Development and
Redevelopment Committee meeting into the record with correction.
REPORTS:
Code Enforcement Report:
There were no questions or comments.
Public Works Department Report:
Commissioner Hotchkiss said he would like to thank the workers for picking up on the high
grass.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Public Works Recycling Report:
There were no questions or comments.
Commissioner Lavalle said he will accept those reports into record as submitted.We will go
slightly out of order tonight and go to Redevelopment.
Redevelopment:
URS Monthly Status Report
Jody Holton of URS Corporation said she had two meetings one with a hotel developer and the
other a mixed use developer.The mixed use developer is transitioning from doing single family home developments in
suburban settings to doing mixed use so this is a new territory for him. He is looking to do small or medium scale
mixed use with multi-family components.I provided him with property information and I told him about the TIF
guidelines that are underway.
Ms. Holton said they also had a meeting about the construction management and pre-construction
management of Memorial Park Drive. All the consultants were present, Kate Harper the solicitor, an engineer from URS,
as well as the Township, Jack Snyder, John Crawford, David Dodies and Paul Purtell.We are going to have these
meetings monthly just to coordinate the efforts of the construction.We talked about the SEPTA land swap.The HOP
permit was submitted and approval is complete.McMahon also reported that the DEP permit for the culvert was accepted
and McCloskey & Faber revised their plaza design to fit the new culvert design.There was an extension of the
culvert under the redesign and they shifted the plaza to fit better on that area.The fountain remains the same.We
talked about the need for some sort of easement with Bally's property; the culvert is actually on their property.The
solicitor, David Dodies and I are working on that.A plot plan has been drawn up for that.
Solicitor Harper replied that Bally's is a big company and they have to run it up the flag pole
to see if everybody agrees and it is a certain advantage to them letting us have the easement not the least of which
is the care and maintenance of the culvert.
Commissioner Spearing asked if there has been any further correspondence with them since this
letter.
Ms. Holton replied yes.I talked with their corporate office and it was determined that is the
office that will handle the legal arrangements.They are coordinating back with their local office.
Solicitor Harper said she has a letter going to them but does not believe it went out
yet.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Ms. Holton said they received the plot plan from Chambers Associates so that we actually know
the amount of area that we need in the easement.
Solicitor Harper stated that it is very small.
Ms. Holton said it doesn't impact their parking, access or signage.The erosion, sedimentation
plan and permit were completed. We need to renegotiate with the contractor on construction costs and it might change
slightly due to the fact that the construction date was shifted.Chambers will be coordinating that negotiation and we
will have that as soon as we have the plaza plan revisions. McMahon has to look at the landscaper visions and send
all of it to Chambers Associates and by the 15th we should have a package to renegotiate with the
contractor.
Commissioner Lavalle asked Mr. Dodies if we requested an itemization of the extra costs that
the contractor requested at a past committee meeting.
Solicitor Harper said that Chambers had requested that of them.
Commissioner Lavalle asked if we received a response, if a letter went out.
Joe Hanna responded that we have not received a response. We have requested the update on the
prevailing wages that will be part of the cost analysis for them.As soon as that comes in we will provide them with
that information.
Commissioner Lavalle asked if he would give the committee a copy of the letter that went
out.
Joe Hanna said the letter was for them to give us an itemized breakdown of the costs. We had to
wait until all the permits were issued so if there was any impact to the plans they had the latest plans which would
include those costs compatible with those plans.We are putting together that package to give to them.They are aware
that we are looking for the costs and they are getting all their information from us.
Ms. Holton stated that there is a schedule that says we'll start negotiation with KC
Construction in mid-June and we should be complete no later than July; demolition in the
beginning of July, if those negotiations are satisfactory, then we go into construction in
mid-August.
Commissioner Spearing said it was his recollection that the demolition and the construction of
the road were separate contracts.
Ms. Holton replied they are separate and Public Works is managing the demolition. Is that
correct?
Community Development June 9, 2008
Mr. Dodies replied yes and with regard to the demolition the buildings have been cleared of
asbestos.We are working now with a contractor for utility shutoffs and hopefully meet the timetable, which will be
demo within the next three or four weeks.
Commissioner Lavalle asked if discussions with Bally's will get in the way of the
schedule.
Solicitor Harper said not in the way of the demolition.
Mr. Dodies said that they met last month with the consultants and the staff that are involved
and will do this on a monthly basis.
Ms. Holton said that the revitalization plan update was submitted Friday to Montgomery County
as per the Commissioners request of the June 2, 2008 meeting.Paul Purtell has forwarded to me plans of proposals or
development plans that are going on within the revitalization area and there are two; Jared's Galleria of Jewelry and
a roof top cell tower proposal, which I reviewed and provided comments.
Commissioner Spearing said he thought he saw work getting done at The Fusion.
Ms. Holton said that the Fusion came through and she believes it had waived land development
and now, she believes, they are going to need a signed application and permit for a new sign.The sign that existed
was dilapidated and I believe Paul Purtell determined that they would need a permit for that, so we might see
something on that.
The Old York Road Streetscape Pilot Project - the grant that we have outstanding with
Montgomery County to do some streetscape along York Road from Davisville to Easton Road, Memorial Park Drive, we will
submit a proposal for streetscape design for the July meeting for you to review.We will continue discussions with
Bally's and have meetings with developers as needed.
Commissioner Lavalle asked if there were any Commissioner questions.
Commissioner Romaniello said regarding the proposal that they gave KSK last year for
streetscape it was a 20% match and thought it was around $37,000.00 or $35,000.00 the
Township had to match with regard to the $153,000.00 coming from Montgomery County.
Mr. Dodies replied that was correct.
Commissioner Romaniello asked if there were any costs with KSK in the grant application.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Mr. Dodies replied no that the proposal had been moved through committee and was scheduled for
action by the Board and was tabled.The Board will be seeing a reworked version of that proposal. The Township match
is in kind services however we choose to provide them.
Commissioner Romaniello asked if the application itself indicated any costs that we had locked
in with KSK.
Mr. Dodies said he can't say it's likely that KSK was referenced in the application but also
doesn't believe that will be an issue with the County in terms of someone else or another firm providing those
services.I don't think that will be a problem.
Commissioner Spearing asked if they are getting full cooperation with outstanding
materials.
Solicitor Harper replied no.
Mr. Dodies said he doesn't believe it will have any impact on the project that they are working
on now.It will not have any impact on our time table for Memorial Park Drive.
Commissioner Lavalle asked if it is holding up progress in any way.
Mr. Dodies replied no.
Commissioner Lavalle asked if the subject of Tax Incremental Financing came up.
Ms. Holton replied yes.Actually both of these developers were familiar with the concept but had
not been involved in a TIF situation. It seemed to them that given the existing state of things that public
assistance of some sort was needed.
Commissioner Lavalle said if the TIF Guideline Committee was at liberty to tell where they are
going from here on the Commissioner's end.
Commissioner Hotchkiss said they have a meeting set up.
Design Review Board Recommendations
Ms. Holton said after looking at several Design Review Boards she is focusing on the Radnor
Township example.It has very clear standards for setting up the Board.We might have to change that piece of the
criteria by which we judge proposals for design.I have included the actual ordinance in the memorandum at the end.The
Board typically reviews applicants, sign permits and they review for material changes to the building
Community Development June 9, 2008
which they define in their code as any changes to the exterior of the building.Everything you
do when you are working on the exterior of the building is reviewed within the state
mandated review clock.I've done some design guidelines with Penndel Borough and they have more
specific pictures or images of the types of materials and colors and it's a wide variety.We tried to make design
themes consistent.
My recommendation to the Commissioners is that you form a Design Review Board and have some
sort of professional background or experience for at least some of the members of that Board.I am suggesting five
members. The term of office should be about five years staggered for the first appointment so you don't have
everybody running over at the same time.The APA expressed interest in taking on a role similar to a Design Review
Board. If that is the case their Board should meet some of the new criteria and whether or not five years on the APA
qualifies as your experience as an architect that is up to you.You would want people with some background in
engineering, architecture, planning, landscaping something from a professional background.The Board should review
sign permits, especially in the town center zoning district as well as architectural and landscape plans for new
development, exterior structural additions and material changes similar to the Radnor requirements.We should be sure
that our submission requirements allow the Board to review the appropriate documents.There should be an appeal
process and this Board is advisory to the Board of Commissioners.
Commissioner Spearing said our zoning already adequately covers signage requirements.He asked
if we included any of that in our town center zoning different from our original zoning.
Ms. Holton said the typical signs that you see are no longer allowed in the town center
district.
Commissioner Lavalle said that Fusion is obviously not going through this process.
Ms. Holton said they will have to comply with the existing code.Paul Purtell noted that the
sign was dilapidated and therefore had to be replaced and in which case you had to come under the new requirements
for signage.
Commissioner Hotchkiss asked about the Design Review Board's exclusion of paint and why they
were not going to look at color.
Ms. Holton said the intent is if somebody is painting their building and not doing any other
changes.
A discussion ensued.
Commissioner Spearing asked if we could come up with an incentive to get the tenants to be more
cooperative with the rest of the street.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Ms. Holton said that Abington Township has a grant program for facade improvements. You could
start a grant program or team with a local bank and provide low interest loans, provide financial incentives or waive
Township fees.
Commissioner Spearing said he is worried that things might be overlapping. We have the APA and
we're talking about an architectural design being an advisory then we have zoning.Zoning was some of the
considerations of the Radnor plan so we don't want to be advising to contradict our zoning.I'm sure the intent is
that we stay consistent.Are there some other municipalities that have a review board working with an APA also in
Montgomery County?
Ms. Holton said that the planning body can be separate from designer review as it is in
Radnor.
Solicitor Harper said that legally the applicant would have to meet the requirements of the
zoning separate and apart from the Design Board.
A lengthy discussion regarding how the APA and Design Board would work followed.
Commissioner Lavalle said we could put the review process with some boards we already have in
place.
Commissioner Spearing said he agreed with Commissioner Lavalle.
Ms. Holton said we have a very experienced APA as far as she can tell.
Commissioner Lavalle said that Fusion Restaurant and Jared Jewelers is a good example.
Commissioner Lavalle said they voted at the last meeting on a resolution of zoning and there
was a list of waivers some of which the Board agreed to and some they denied.It is an advisory situation.
Solicitor Harper said that the Commissioners were very clear that they do not want to waive the
information within 400 ft. You are kinder to the applicant to tell them up front you don't want to give that waiver.
The Radnor ordinance talked about all applications.Solicitor Harper asked Ms. Holton whether we were talking just
about town center.We would want to make it clear that this review process occurs only in a certain area then we would
want to come up with some set of criteria that you feel belongs to the town center, which may not belong generally to
Upper Moreland but may belong and be appropriate to what your vision of the town center is.
Commissioner Spearing asked if that is the case with Radnor.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Ms. Holton said after reading their ordinance it seems like it is for every commercial sign in
the Township.
A discussion continued.
Commissioner Comments
Commissioner Romaniello said she agreed that the Architectural Design Review Board should be
focused on the town center district not outside the district.She also feels that "Way Finding" signage is the group
to take the lead on presenting design options to the
public and bringing them to the committee for review.The other concern is the APA fulfilling
the role as a Design Review Board.I would like to start out with giving the public an opportunity to participate in
this.
Commissioner Lavalle said the responsibilities could be in one of three areas, the APA, the
Historical Commission or a new three or five member board.He asked that Mr. de Jonge give a brief overview of how the
APA functions.
Jonathan de Jonge said that the APA reacts to applicants as they come in and we do a little bit
of everything. Paul Purtell gives them guidance plus the Montgomery County Planning Commission is also present at the
meetings.They review the plans before they come before them.They look at architectural issues.
Commissioner Lavalle asked is there anything that comes in for town center zoning that does not
come before the APA?
Mr. de Jonge replied not right now.
Commissioner Spearing said that was because of the waivers or was that designed that
way.
Mr. de Jonge said they were specifically excluded from town center.Nothing has come before
them.
Commissioner Spearing said that both got waivers of land development and that is the only
reason they didn't come before the APA.
Mr. Dodies said the distinction was made as a result that was Jared's. This Committee and the
Commissioners will receive copies of all applications that come in within the town center district. So you will be
made aware of them from the beginning.Typically the APA does not see applications where waivers are sought.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Commissioner Lavalle said whatever process they move through town center zoning even if it is a
land development waiver, in his mind, needs to be reviewed.
Mr. de Jonge said that members of the APA do take courses in planning, land development and
also on zoning.
Commissioner Lavalle said two committees are an alternative.
Mr. de Jonge said that the APA looks at all aspects of anything that comes before them.
Commissioner Spearing said the APA, as it's structured right now, might have a couple of short
comings that we need to expand on if we are to go that way.How do we want to structure this process?
Mr. Dodies said he would suggest you have to decide first how the structure should be, the
structure of the advisory component.
Mr. de Jonge said it should be advisory and the final decision should rest with the governing
body.
Commissioner Valenzasaid he would like to see a new board formed
and made up of three engineers and the APA.This way you have both together and three design professionals to do the
job and they can work together and you get everything done at one time.
Commissioner Spearing asked if he was recommending the APA to include those people or make it
separate.
Commissioner Valenza replied either or.
Commissioner Hotchkiss said in terms of the clock running it will be best to have a
committee.
Solicitor Harper said it would be better for the applicant getting everything done on time.You
could either add them onto the APA, plus three members appointed at-large or you could have a separate board who
meets with the APA so they could have the benefit of each others discussions.
Commissioner Spearing said that currently the APA reviews all land development Township wide.
They don't always have something every month so a defined area like town center would be even less of an
occurrence.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Solicitor Harper responded by saying that it would be less of a commitment so maybe you would
have more luck getting design professionals who were willing to do it because they would only have to show up if we
kept it as a separate board that met concurrently
with the APA.Then they would only have to show up when there was a town center
application.
Commissioner Spearing said it would be more coordination on our zoning officer,
and asked if this would be an ordinance.
Solicitor Harper replied yes but we are not quite there yet.We have the structure just about
decided then we need to decide the criteria.You have mentioned several times the
Historic Review Board which is a good analogy but that is not what this board would be looking
at.
Ms. Holton proceeded to give further details on the criteria.
Mr. Dodies suggested that the committee mull it over then come back in a few weeks and give us
some direction and we'll take it from there.
Commissioner Spearing said our town center zoning shares a big portion of Moreland Road with
Abington Township. Do they have any design criteria they are recommending?
Ms. Holton said no but we could talk with them but there is not a whole lot on Moreland
Road.
Commissioner Lavalle said that some communities he is familiar with not all their members are
community residents they are from outside of the community.I think it is important that we deal with and search out
Upper Moreland residents.
Ms. Holton said it is a volunteer basis.
OLD BUSINESS:
Draft Policy Development Information Request to be continued on agenda pending Board of
Commissioners consideration/adoption of TIF Guidelines
Commissioner Lavalle said we are holding this on the agenda to see what our TIF Committee comes
up with on their guidelines.
Application by SEPTA for change to existing lot line to facilitate construction of Memorial
Park Drive
Community Development June 9, 2008
Solicitor Harper said in order to do the construction of War Memorial Park Drive the Township
needed a small parcel of land.In meeting with SEPTA, who owns the land, and the county solicitor's office, which had
an Agreement of Sale to swap a piece of land, it became clear the easiest way to do this legally would be to have
SEPTA make an
application as the owner of the land, for subdivision, move a piece over to Upper Moreland and
also go to the Zoning Board, with the Board of Commissioners approval
and recommendation, to get a variance for the piece of land that needs to be swapped to the
county.What you have is the subdivision or lot line change part of it which directly benefits the Township by helping
us to make an arrangement with SEPTA whereby we swap parcels of ground and we get the piece we need for War Memorial
Park Drive.
Solicitor Harper said she is going to the Zoning Hearing Board in support of the application
and ask them if they could issue the decision that night.That will allow us to keep on track and get all of this done
in time for us to do the construction of War Memorial Park Drive.
Mr. Dodies said the Committee should direct the engineer to prepare the necessary resolution
for the July 7, 2008 meeting.
Solicitor Harper suggested that the land being conveyed to Montgomery County be
tiedby a deed restriction to the building that the county owns.It is clearly the parking
for that building.We wouldn't want this separate lot to be conveyed separate from the building that it supports by
providing parking.This is something we could put into the resolution or suggest that the Zoning Board put in its
decision so that we make sure that ground stays with the building.We could do it by recording some sort of covenant
or easement on that ground so they stay together.
Commissioner Lavalle said it is imperative that we move forward with this for July
7th.
NEW BUSINESS:
Memorial Park Drive Project
Mr. Dodies said he added this item to the agenda just as a point of clarification and to make
it clear for the Commissioners that as we move forward with demolition and construction for the approved plans, the
Township's various consultants, John Chambers, Joe Hanna, Kate Harper's office, McMahon Associates, McCloskey &
Faber will be billing on a time and material basis for project over-site connected work.With prior Boards there were
contracts prepared for the Board's approval from McCloskey & Faber and McMahon Associates, for elements related
to design application and permits. Now as we move forward we are essentially implementing the plans that have been
adopted, the permits that have been approved, and want it on the record that the bills and invoices that you will be
seeing from these associates will reflect their time and materials spent on the
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project. The primary source of funding will be from the bond issue that the Board approved last
Monday night.
Commissioner Spearing asked if there was a specific item that triggered this and the fact that
those contracts have been completed.
Mr. Dodies said they have essentially been completed.There is a small amount of money left.The
Board did award McMahon Associates a contract for an amended PennDot permit; 95% of the invoicing for that is
done.There may be a small portion of a contract remaining with McCloskey & Faber.Beyond that there are no
contracts with any of the consultants.We are moving forward toward implementation of demolition and construction and
at this point it is pay as we go. We did allocate for soft costs such as these; approximately 15% of the bid prices
that was incorporated. The funding for that was allowed for in the bond issue. It will not be from the General Fund
or Reserve and there are no contracts with our consultants, it's time and material basis.
Commissioner Lavalle asked Mr. Dodies if they are moving forward under his direction.
Mr. Dodies said yes that everything is in motion. This is a point of discussion during
committee each month.There may be action items that come up from time to time, if there are change orders that need
to be processed.We will certainly make you aware of that.The contracts have been awarded, the project is under way
and we are hopeful to get construction going within the next couple of months and you'll see the progress reports
through Jody's notes.You will be well informed.
Commissioner Spearing asked if the monthly meetings automatically include all the professionals
or are they at our request.
Mr. Dodies said he doesn't know if it is necessary each month for every consultant to attend
but in the interest of making sure that we handle this as smoothly and efficiently as possible I think it is wise to
get together on a monthly basis to see where we stand, what we need to accomplish and what's been done.
VISITOR COMMENTS:
There were none.
OLD BUSINESS
Revised draft of Storm Water Management Ordinance
Joe Hanna said he doesn't think there are any significant changes.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Commissioner Spearing said they should talk about what is going to be the impact on the
residential aspect aside from a subdivision or land development.
Joe Hanna stated that the way the model code was written it impacts everyone that is going to
do work on their property.The Board wanted to consider whether some exemptions should be allowed for in the
ordinance.
Commissioner Lavalle said we have to discuss whether we are interested in a particular type of
exemption and what the cut off line is.
Commissioner Hotchkiss asked if they are talking about building a new single family or just an
addition.
Joe Hanna replied it would be for either.You will need a survey of the entire property and
analysis.That same cost is going to come into play.
Commissioner Hotchkiss asked would we have the requirement for the additional area or are we
saying we would have the whole property brought up to code.
Joe Hanna said the way the code is written it is just for the new impervious surfaces that you
construct.
Commissioner Spearing asked what would be a typical exception that we would grant in the
ordinance.
Joe Hanna said that in some municipalities where he has done private work he had seen 500
square feet, 1000 square feet. These are some of the thresholds that they would exempt for additional impervious
coverage. What you will see will be the designers design to that.
Commissioner Hotchkiss said he believes that Abington and Cheltenham have strong storm water
ordinances.
Joe Hanna said he has not done any additions in Abington in a few years.White Marsh Township
implemented a new ordinance about two years ago and he doesn't think it has any exemptions in it.
Commissioner Hotchkiss asked Mr. Hanna if he could survey some of these townships to see where
their thresholds are.
Mr. Hanna said that the ones he has seen where there is an exemption it's a fixed
number.
Commissioner Hotchkiss said when you apply for a permit, in Cheltenham, they give you a chart
for what you need to do.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Commissioner Spearing said we could do something like a percentage of expansion with the
existing footprint.
Mr. Hanna responded absolutely.
Commissioner Lavalle asked if a fixed number would be a better way to go.
Mr. Hanna said it eliminates the argument.
A lengthy discussion continued.
Mr. Hanna said they could look at the latest code amendments and give a list of what they are
doing in the areas and similar developed municipalities.
Further discussion resulted.
Commissioner Lavalle asked Mr. Hanna to give the Committee some examples on other
municipalities next month.
A resident suggested it would be more preferential to do a square footage and a fixed number to
a certain degree.He also suggested giving a time frame, which would prevent someone from doing 900 sq. ft. addition
this year and a pavement next year. You could also provide incentives i.e. for a 1000 sq. ft. you could do as
Philadelphia Water does one inch for the additional impervious only.That is the amount of water you would have to
control.So whether you do it with rain barrels or a rain garden, something that is simple, if you do 1000 sq. ft. you
do enough for that plus your existing house.
Commissioner Lavalle said it was a good point especially the cumulative affect over a period of
time.
Commissioner Romaniello said she is in favor of a fixed percentage.
NEW BUSINESS
Consideration of Township Regulations regarding the location, size and permitted use of
Portable Home Storage Units
Solicitor Harper said they are working on this.
Commissioner Lavalle said they will discuss it again next month.
Request for Adoption of Ordinance by Township from Upper Moreland-Hatboro
JointSewer Authority
Community Development June 9, 2008
Commissioner Spearing asked for an explanation.
Mr. Dodies said he cannot speak beyond what the Authority is requesting.
Solicitor Harper said sewer plants have permit requirements and when they change then they have
to change what is allowable to be in the sewage coming to them.It is mainly
for industrial users.You have an ordinance that has local limits in it and it shows how it is
being changed to what is allowed.
Commissioner Spearing asked about the NPDES permit and what the status was.
Mr. Dodies said he discussed that today. Arrow Consulting is doing that work.There are no
results as yet.
Commissioner Spearing noted that there were some changes with allowable discharges.He also
asked when we do our sampling are we duplicating the same discharge points, the outfalls the Sewer Authority might be
using for their analysis and sampling.
Mr. Dodies said he could only speak for what the Township is doing.I don't know what the
Authority does.The Authority is requesting us to do this in conjunction with their attempts to comply with EPA
regulations.I will be happy to invite a representative to come to the meeting next month.
Mr. Hanna said this is a requirement of the users; what is going to the treatment plant. What
you are evaluating is the outflow from your storm water lines to the streams.This is not what is coming out of the
treatment plants this is going into the plant but these users have to pre-treat.
Mr. Dodies said that the Authority would like us to pass the ordinance.If you would like
additional clarification it would have to come from the Authority.
OTHER ITEMS
Blair Mill and Edwards - drainage problem at intersection
Mr. Jack Snyder said they are going to restructure the handicap ramp so that the children
waiting for the bus do not have to stand in a large puddle and they will do it sometime during this construction
season.
VISITOR COMMENTS
Mr. Richard Booth said with regard to the construction of War Memorial Drive there was supposed
to be a separate bid item for the fountain. You may consider doing away with
Community Development June 9, 2008
the fountain and putting that money into other projects that are going to be needed.He asked
Mr. Dodies about the status of the 611 Corridor computerized traffic lights.
Mr. Jack Snyder answered Mr. Richard Booth saying that there has been a system installed
starting at Cheltenham and working its way north.Cheltenham is completely done.Abington is underway and then it's
Upper Moreland Township and also a few lights in Horsham.They are projecting to have this all installed this
year.
Mr. Dodies replied that PennDot and not the Township are responsible for the extra
costs.
Mr. de Jonge suggested a community garden on the corner of Davisville and Terwood roads.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS:
Commissioner Romaniello said she believes it is an excellent idea. The Friends of Boileau had
talked about it.
Commissioner Romaniello said that the fountain is about $13,000.00.
Commissioner Romaniello said she wants to make sure there is no animosity between the APA and
the redevelopment area and if there is maybe Paul Purtell could make a statement at the next meeting.She asked
Commissioner Hotchkiss if the TIF meetings will be scheduled in the next week and if it is going to be opened to the
public.
Commissioner Valenzareplied that once they get a date they will
let everyone know.
Commissioner Romaniello said she wants to go on the record and say that a majority of the
Commissioners when they were going through the planning process last year and were talking about private public
partnerships the benefit of that creating great public amenities, not just bringing in the additional new tax
revenues but aprivate public partnership that we would have a public benefit to the partnership. We are investing in
the project and we would hope that the developer would invest in our Township and would not be one sided.She is not
convinced that the school district may be looking at this as an issue of bottom line revenues generated asking what
we are going to get out of it.She wants to hold this committee accountable to this Board.
Commissioner Lavalle said this committee is making recommendations.
Commissioner Hotchkiss stated they are not making decisions.
Commissioner Romaniello said she hopes that it would have a public component not just be for
private development.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Commissioner Spearing spoke about the Norwyn Road drainage project.Norwyn Road has already been
through a process and the problem has been identified.He thinks it should remain on the agenda but does not think it
needs to be re-planned or re-analyzed.
Mr. Dodies said it was discussed that the engineer's office does have a considerable amount of
information in their files for work that was already done, in particular, this project.It would be expected that when
the engineer's office provides the Board with a
proposal for scope of services they would take into account existing information they have
complied over time.
Commissioner Spearing asked if they could have a record of all the repairs that had been done
to that particular project along the way.
Commissioner Valenzasaid that it was his understanding that the
engineer's office is to come up with approximate costs for projects we asked them to do.
Joe Hanna said the next step is a proposal outline.One of the steps is to gather all the work
that has been done to date and put it on the list.We are working with the staff and the Commissioners.Once we get the
list of the projects where we have a lot of information, projects we have little information we'll review that with
the staff and the Board to see how you want to prioritize and then put a budget together for them.
Commissioner Romaniello said this area is a top priority in her opinion.
A discussion ensued.
Chief Nestel said if a resident calls 911 and the police do not respond he wants to know.If the
police don't show up, please call the police department and he will address it.
Commissioner Spearing said that during that particular time frame the property we talked about
there was clear separation between access to those buildings in the back and they were isolated.
Chief Nestel said that 300 Horsham is number one on the list when it comes to flooding
location.When we get a heavy rain the police are there to keep an eye on it and let emergency management know.
Commissioner Valenzasaid they need to put something into the
budget every year for storm water related issues.
Commissioner Lavalle said they are talking about multi townships here.Are we going to deal with
it on our own or are we going to deal with discussions with the surrounding Townships.
Community Development June 9, 2008
Commissioner Hotchkiss said when they see the costs and see what is involved then we need to
reach out to these other Townships.
Commissioner Romaniello suggested that they should let them know now that we are interested in
solving the water problems in that area.She was glad to hear that it will be fast tracked.
Joe Hanna said his understanding of the Board's request was for us to try to gather all the
information that's been developed to date over the years, work with the staff and the Board to identify the
priorities and put budget numbers on them so you can start to look at the budget for next year; that was the primary
goal.If you want us to expedite, to look at this particular project, we'll set up the project number, keep track of
these costs and we'll deduct them from the proposal when it is authorized.It's simple enough to achieve if you want
to jump start looking at this particular project.
Commissioner Hotchkiss said he was in favor of that if they are able to take a multi municipal
approach on this.
Mr. Dodies said you cannot take a multi municipal approach until you know you have a proposal
to give the municipalities.There were no funds that were appropriated for these purposes for 2008.
A discussion continued.
Mr. Dodies said that they will move it for action on July 7th.
Commissioner Spearing said newsletters from the Sewer Authority were sent to the residents and
there was an item in it which said, "All of the metered water is subject to your swimming pool."That comment is not
necessarily true.There is an option to get an irrigation service to your property and that service is not subject to
sewer rates. It is an expensive undertaking, one time for installation, but as the sewer rates are going to be going
up in the future it might be a consideration.
There were no other Commissioner comments.
ADJOURNMENT:9:34p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Arlene M. Nolan
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